masking & unveiling

Yes. Being a member of a church does not define your belief system. You can be Christian and not belong to a church. There are fundamental things that all Christians believe. I believe in these and not because I do or do not walk into a building have have a priest/minister/pastor tell me to. I have faith in God because I do. Yes, going to church can bring about more education and help you to be involved with others more, but it certainly is not the definition, for me, of what a Christian is. I go to church when I need the ritual. When I know I can't do it on my own. When I'm weak and I need more and when I need that helping hand in seeing my faith more clearly.

I tried that for a while. Not very well. Kind of turned my life into a giannt craphole...but thats just me...

Going to church does not make you a Christian nor does it make you a "better" Christian. However, this walk on earth can be tough. Fellowship with like minded people and a set aside time to worship our great God with others doing the same make our lives much more abundant. I would not trade those times for anything. If I did not go to church to worship, I might only check it off my to do list or ignore it all together. Worship draws my closer to God, keeps me focused on my one purpose which is glorifying Him and encourages me through my daily walk. I don't view church as what it can do for me as much as what I can do for the Kingdom of God through corporate worship and service.

It scares me that every comment so far is focused on "me". That kind of explains why the church and the world is in the shape that it is right now.

Anonymous #1: if you think at any time that you aren't weak and that you can do it on your own, you do not understand the gospel.

I have sort of come to hate the church because I do not think it reflects Christ. What do I do then?

"The visible church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law) consists of all those through out the world that profess the true religion...and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house of the family of God, out of which there is no ordinary means of salvation...

"All saints, that are united to Jesus Christ their Head, by His Spirit and by faith, have fellowship with Him in His graces, sufferings, death, resurrection, and glory: and, being united to one another in love, they have communion in each others gifts and graces, and are obliged to the performance of such duties, public and private, as do conduce to their mutual good, both to the inward and outward man.

"Saints by profession are bound to maintain an (sic) holy fellowship and communion in the worship of God and in performing such other spiritual services as tend to their mutual edification.."

ugly and old is the westminster confession, almost as ugly, but 1600 years younger than what paul wrote in I Corinthians 12, 13. but they both say the same thing, we have an obligation to one another in Christ. He has given you great things, and it is selfish and destructive to keep those to yourself. the point of that passage is how the only Godly way to use the gifts God has given is in service to others and to His Church, any other use is wrong.

both of these get to the same point, the Church is there for all Christians to serve, if you aren't serving the Chruch then you aren't doing anything Christian. you are being selfish and stealing from God.

when we are told to offer ourselves up as a living sacrifice, what are we supposed to sacrifice to? any answer consistent with the Word leads back to the Church. the options are God, Christ, or the Church.

if God; where is God? the Church (Eph 2:19)how are we to hear what sacrifices we are to make from Him? by His Spirit. Who judges the Spirits to be sure that what we hear is from God? the Church (I Cor 14:29-33 I John 4:1)

if Christ; Where does Christ live? The Church (Eph 2:20) What is Christ's only goal? To build the Church (Matt 16:18, John 10, I Cor 14:12)

if the Church; oops answers itself.

Christ is in the Church, every believer, but not totally in every believer, that would make each one of us Christ. but He I have a bit and my wife has a bit and my elder has a bit. when the Church comes together, we have Christ and Christ is made manifest to us in two identities, the Church and the Word. He is identical to both and revealed by both, imperfectly (but in both cases the imperfection is ours)but this is the only way we see Christ. stay away and you don't see Him, you only get yourself and what a crap hole that is.

I think we often view this backwards. Instead of defining "going to church" as the hour we spend together each week, I think "going to church" should be defined as beginning when we leave the church building every week and ending when we make it back into the church building the following week.

Seems like that's what it looked like in Acts 2. Necessary items (2:42) include teaching, fellowship, breaking of bread and prayer. All 4 can take place on Sunday morning. Most should take place the rest of the week, though.

But the teaching on Sunday mornings probably more closely resembles the "apostles' teaching" - as it comes from those (pastors) who most closely resemble the apostles as hearing it from God.

I notice your question says "be involved" in a church and not just attend a church. you are tricky.

you can't call yourself a Christian and not devote yourself to Christ's church. Period. Arguing the opposite is just excuses and laziness.

I find it interesting that the Reformation taught us that we don't need the church to have a relationship with God for us, but the protestants are the ones who get up in arms if you aren't a churchgoer.

There are seasons to be deeply involved in the church and there are seasons to not be, just like anything else, I think.

Can't not be involved if your a Christian. We are the church, to not be involved in the church is to not be involved. The local church is the only hope of the world to reach those that do not know the Savior. It's the mission of a Christian to be involved in the local church so that the Body of Christ may be built up.

I'm not questioning anyone's faith or salvation but it is not OK long-term to not be a part of a local church. As Christians we are the Body of Christ. Someone who isn't plugged in somewhere is a like a "dismembered" part of a body. Pretty useless on their own. We need each other. The world needs us "each other".

I was a "member" for many years growing up...I grew up in a time where we were not allowed to associated with the outside world...we could have school friends but never attend "worldly" functions, never listened to "worldly" music, keep to our selves...just pray for the sinners...the non believers...I am now a "dismembered" member of the "church"...I havent been in a church building for 5 years...church "members" no longer associate with me...but my love for God, and my faith, has taught me and my family that loving those who Christ loved, without question, without judgement, is the most important thing we can do. I refuse to sit in a church building, in an organized man made self serving organization, and try to "reach out", try to "save" the sinners...Im right out there in the middle of the world, and people see a difference...they want what I have...and I share with them...God gives us that strength when we truely believe in Him,...not spending so much time depending on the man made church, which has become very self serving in the past years. People call for advice...call in their time of need.. reach out to me and ask what they should do...how do I do it...what is the difference between them and what we have...they are not scared to ask because they see me and my family as a solid unit which the world has not destroyed ...people are searching for help, and standing in those four walls, associating with only those who are"likeminded" is not how Jesus built his church...Im pretty sure he didnt even have a building...

To the one about the Church being man made. Read Matthew 16. John 10, Ephesians 2-4 and then talk about who makes the church. It is an insult to Christ and the rest of the Godhead to speak lightly of Their Church. To ignore the Church is to ignore Christ since that is His dwelling place.

one last thing, we are supposed to love the Church more than the world that surrounds us. "So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith." Gal 6:10
to prefer the world for sinners sake is sin. the Church is their only hope, not you.

again...I believe that this is a misinterpretation of what was meant to be...I am not insulting the church of Christ..the people of Christ.I am of the opinion that the building, the physical building and making it a gethering place for believers, and in someway telling them that meeting there makes them better Christians, is a mis belief. Christ meant for the church to be the people...there are simply too many people who go to "Church" every Sunday, and maybe even Wednesday, but choose to hide their light the rest of the week. I choose to share my belief and faith with the world that surrounds me. I refuse to raise my children to believe that they are better, or more forgiven than their school mates...I will not ever walk them down that road. I believe that God created us all equal, and has given us a free will...some of us can actually worship him, honor and glorify him, without the organized religon that many desire Does that make me better than them...no...absolutley not...I am following my heart and my God...who continues to answer prayers and touch hearts without the weekly religious rituals.

offer a different understanding of those passages, explain why we are commanded in Hebrews 12 to gather together, and tell me why paul suffered all he did to raise up churches that met on the Lord's day for the fellowship dinner, (Lord's supper) (I Corinthians 11) if the idea of a local and defined gathering of believers is outside of the Apostolic Faith.

You cannot have a personal Faith that tells you something different then the Word. When experience and your feelings conflict with clear Biblical teaching your feelings and experiences are wrong. The Church is more forgiven then the world for it was the Church that Christ died for.

I appreciate your vast knowledge of the Bible and its intrepretations, and this blog is not the place for a debate of our personal interpretations of the Bible and its teachings...I respect your opinion...and this question was asked, so I answered it...in my opinion...I dont think Ill be burning in hell anytime soon for living a life lead by God...

thanks for the dialogue, all (and more is welcome). I am hoping to have time to weigh in with my thoughts some time in the next few days.

After thinking about the comments on my opinion and convictions I am reminded yet again why I dont walk such a narrow minded existance anymore..I was never aware of the true extent of the suffering in the world while I grew up sheltered and in a protective church bubble. Maybe I have gone to the other extreme...so be it..God has blessed my family and continues to do so, and I thank Him every day for this life that we have been given...maybe everyone should take the time once in awhile to get to know those who are barely getting by without Faith...instead of just praying for them and looking past them, and being self serving in a bigger better facility which services your own personal needs...the same blessings and communion can take place where two or three are gathered....(see...I can quote too...I just dont hide behind it...)...(PS...my dad was an Evangelical Minister in my youth, so please dont think I am ignorant to the ways of the "Church goers" mind...)

(and btw...Kelly...I read your blog all the time and find you to be most refreshing...)

i haven't accused you of ignorance, but you have accused a vast majority of God's people of some pretty horrible stuff. yes i hide behind the Word of God, and find it strange that you would belittle that. what is your authority and rock if not the Word? it is a much stronger bulwark then an undefinable and noncommunicable experience, particularly when such experience is in violation of the one clear standard that God has given us to live by.

and for the record the passage you paraphrased comes from Christ's teaching on Church discipline and excommunicating unrepentant sinners, that is wholly different then the positive marks of the Church.