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Thursday, October 23
can of worms
I read something this morning that led my thoughts to the following question:
Could God convict one person to vote for one Presidential candidate and another person to vote for the other? Would He?
What do you think?
Could God convict one person to vote for one Presidential candidate and another person to vote for the other? Would He?
What do you think?
22 comments:
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Another note from me: be nice. I also am not looking for a stump speech for your candidate, please.
Enough people have to vote for the AntiChrist to insure a win, but it should be close enough to avoid suspicion. :)
Please note my non-partisan response; 'cause I'm reaching across the aisle...
Seriously, I'm not sure that God finds this mess nearly as important as CNN tell us to find it.
Please note my non-partisan response; 'cause I'm reaching across the aisle...
Seriously, I'm not sure that God finds this mess nearly as important as CNN tell us to find it.
One would think that God, being the who he is and having his own opinions, does actually have a preference. The tricky part is that only he truly knows each candidate's hearts. And only he knows the heart of each voter.
I do think that when a person is striving to be in tune with the heart of God, and is very close to God.......and our own heart is swallowed up in His....then he reveals to us his will. God's will is for "His kingdom come..." and we can achieve this....His kingdom here on earth through applying the beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount and living them daily. It is his recipe. I believe God talks to us..through prayer, scripture, and other Godly people....If we truly are seeking after his heart, we will hear him and we will know who He wants us to vote for based on scripture.
Sorry for the long sermon.
Sorry for the long sermon.
I like Garrick's comment better. Its a very difficult job for God to let his prophecies happen sometimes. One would assume he doesn't want an AntiChrist, but we need him to appear to get this show on the road!
I went around and around with this for a while now on my own. I voted for who I believe God wanted ME to vote for and to feel peace about my decision and why. He knows who is going to win and has a hand in it. I just prayed that regardless of who I voted for that God will put the right man in office for His reasons. I do believe that God calls different people to vote for different candidates. To me it's more about the voter's heart than getting who we think is the right man in office.
If I take away everything that I feel would be best for me or even the country and only look at what I believe with all my heart is a mandate from God, then I have only one way I can vote. After making this decision, my study this morning involved reading Psalm 139 which confirmed it for me. Our home is divided this election and I am so glad to know God can handle even that.
wouldn't that make God undecided? or schizophrenic?
No.....just allowing each of us to make up our own mind.
Interesting question. I'll take a stab at it.
If we believe scripture, we know that the history of the world was ordained since the beginning of time. Therefore, logic follows that God intends a certain leader for America so that his will can be accomplished. That leader might even be an Anti-Christ.
Whatever one's personal convictions are, God's supreme will could be to put the greater of the evils in place for the ultimate good.
I really don't think God convicts us of anything but our own repentance.
If we believe scripture, we know that the history of the world was ordained since the beginning of time. Therefore, logic follows that God intends a certain leader for America so that his will can be accomplished. That leader might even be an Anti-Christ.
Whatever one's personal convictions are, God's supreme will could be to put the greater of the evils in place for the ultimate good.
I really don't think God convicts us of anything but our own repentance.
I definitely think this could be the case in order to accomplish his ultimate purposes.
It could be that he convicts the hearts of some but blinds the eyes of others...
It could be that he convicts the hearts of some but blinds the eyes of others...
It could be that he convicts the hearts of some but blinds the eyes of others...
As we heard this last week at Grace - only 3% of christians regularly tithe. I don't think most people take the time to pray and ask God to show them the qualities in His Word to look for in a candidate...He has a lot to say about leaders. It is so much easier to listen to TV, friends or family.
I believe we sometimes justify what we want and call it God. I believe that if we compared the candidates issues to the bible we would all be voting for the same person. Just remember we are not voting in a God we already have one.
No one candidate will ever be right about everything - that's because they are all human. But Christians must use the Word of God to test each statement and/or stance made or taken by candidates. The Word is the only perfect standard. Only then can wise voting decisions be made.
I'm not sure if this is addressing the question you are asking, but after watching the debates I feel freed up to answer the question the I want to answer not necessarily the one being asked...ha! ha!
The bigger issue for me is the weight we give to our political system as believers. I do not believe God's primary way of building His Kingdom on earth is through politics. I may prefer or "believe in" the way a particular candidate promises to deal with the problems and challenges our country faces, but I am not putting my hope in the government to legislate God's will. I kinda think God has the power to bring that about with or without the cooperation of the federal government. Think about it...when the Messiah came to earth He could have assumed a political position, but He refused to. I don't think that means politics is not important. I just think it means it's not the most important thing in determining how God's will is realized on earth.
I believe God's primary way of building the kingdom is through the church and through the transformation of the human heart. That's weighty to me.
So I will vote and I will watch what happens with great interest. My prayer is for a clear outcome, functioning voting machines, and no dangling chads. But I will not give in to fear if the candidate I vote for is not elected.
The bigger issue for me is the weight we give to our political system as believers. I do not believe God's primary way of building His Kingdom on earth is through politics. I may prefer or "believe in" the way a particular candidate promises to deal with the problems and challenges our country faces, but I am not putting my hope in the government to legislate God's will. I kinda think God has the power to bring that about with or without the cooperation of the federal government. Think about it...when the Messiah came to earth He could have assumed a political position, but He refused to. I don't think that means politics is not important. I just think it means it's not the most important thing in determining how God's will is realized on earth.
I believe God's primary way of building the kingdom is through the church and through the transformation of the human heart. That's weighty to me.
So I will vote and I will watch what happens with great interest. My prayer is for a clear outcome, functioning voting machines, and no dangling chads. But I will not give in to fear if the candidate I vote for is not elected.
"I do not believe God's primary way of building His Kingdom on earth is through politics. ...but I am not putting my hope in the government to legislate God's will. I kinda think God has the power to bring that about with or without the cooperation of the federal government. "
Awesome.
Another thought: just because God moves you to vote for a particular candidate, doesn't mean He wants that candidate to win. Maybe He wants you to vote for the loser so you'll take that stupid sticker off your car...
Awesome.
Another thought: just because God moves you to vote for a particular candidate, doesn't mean He wants that candidate to win. Maybe He wants you to vote for the loser so you'll take that stupid sticker off your car...
After the Fall, we're each a mixed bag of good and evil. We're each right on some issues, we're each wrong on some issues. The God-nature and sin-nature now co-exist within each of us (as well as within each of our politicians).
We're all called to be members of one body, but to function differently within that body. I may dedicate my time and talents more toward poverty, you might dedicate yours more toward protection of life. Great -- we're each utilizing our talents to further His kingdom. Different is OK.
Given that we're each voting for "mixed bags" of good and bad and, given that we are each called to function in different ways to build His kingdom, yes -- we will, in God-honoring ways, vote differently. If we had "perfect kings" then we, as Christians, would probably vote alike. But perfect kings only exist in God's kingdom, not ours.
Thank God, though, that we don't need to limit His kingdom to ours. His kingdom will prevail, regardless of who we elect to be king of ours.
We're all called to be members of one body, but to function differently within that body. I may dedicate my time and talents more toward poverty, you might dedicate yours more toward protection of life. Great -- we're each utilizing our talents to further His kingdom. Different is OK.
Given that we're each voting for "mixed bags" of good and bad and, given that we are each called to function in different ways to build His kingdom, yes -- we will, in God-honoring ways, vote differently. If we had "perfect kings" then we, as Christians, would probably vote alike. But perfect kings only exist in God's kingdom, not ours.
Thank God, though, that we don't need to limit His kingdom to ours. His kingdom will prevail, regardless of who we elect to be king of ours.
As my good friend Jerry Magee once said in a moment of spiritual enlightenment: "When it comes to sports, God has a .500 record."
Politics, too.
When two sides are both praying to win, I think God leaves it to our "free will."
And then He makes sure it's the best situation for the winner and the loser.
Politics, too.
When two sides are both praying to win, I think God leaves it to our "free will."
And then He makes sure it's the best situation for the winner and the loser.
This question reminds me of the story in Joshua where Joshua meets the messenger of God who happens to be the "commander of the army of the Lord" (Joshua 5:12-15).
In it Joshua asks the messenger if he is "for us or for our enemies?" and the reply I find very interesting. The messenger replies, "Neither."
I don't believe that God cares who we choose to vote for. To be more specific, it is not a sin to vote for either Barrack Obama or John McCain.
Anytime we vote for anything we have to measure whether that person or initiative or proposition meets the standards and test of our values. If we vote against our values I think that would be closer to sin than anything else because it becomes a compromise of what God has convicted you of.
For instance, in the primaries I voted for Mike Huckabee. I voted for him because he matched my values closer than any other candidate. I know many a people who felt that Mike Huckabee was closer to there values than the person they voted for. But they voted for someone else based on who they thought could be Hillary Clinton or Barrack Obama in the general election.
I just find that wrong on so many levels. Vote your conscience and convictions not who you think can win. I'd rather walk away knowing I voted on on my values than walk away compromising my values just because I want the President to be a Republican.
When I discuss this election with friends who support Obama I ask them why they are voting for him. But I dig deeper then there initial responses which are there way of justifying there preference.
Most of the people I speak to have a very similar world view to mine. But mostly I find that it comes down to personality.
Do you prefer ones personality over the others.
I find this astonishing because the Founding Fathers based our system of government on the basis of an informed electorate.
Most people are not informed and if they knew what either candidate really believed, they probably wouldn't vote at all!
But as to the question at hand. If God helps shape your world view and your values and your convictions, then you should vote based upon those.
Then the only think you have to worry about is whether your world view is in line with Gods.
Ok done.
In it Joshua asks the messenger if he is "for us or for our enemies?" and the reply I find very interesting. The messenger replies, "Neither."
I don't believe that God cares who we choose to vote for. To be more specific, it is not a sin to vote for either Barrack Obama or John McCain.
Anytime we vote for anything we have to measure whether that person or initiative or proposition meets the standards and test of our values. If we vote against our values I think that would be closer to sin than anything else because it becomes a compromise of what God has convicted you of.
For instance, in the primaries I voted for Mike Huckabee. I voted for him because he matched my values closer than any other candidate. I know many a people who felt that Mike Huckabee was closer to there values than the person they voted for. But they voted for someone else based on who they thought could be Hillary Clinton or Barrack Obama in the general election.
I just find that wrong on so many levels. Vote your conscience and convictions not who you think can win. I'd rather walk away knowing I voted on on my values than walk away compromising my values just because I want the President to be a Republican.
When I discuss this election with friends who support Obama I ask them why they are voting for him. But I dig deeper then there initial responses which are there way of justifying there preference.
Most of the people I speak to have a very similar world view to mine. But mostly I find that it comes down to personality.
Do you prefer ones personality over the others.
I find this astonishing because the Founding Fathers based our system of government on the basis of an informed electorate.
Most people are not informed and if they knew what either candidate really believed, they probably wouldn't vote at all!
But as to the question at hand. If God helps shape your world view and your values and your convictions, then you should vote based upon those.
Then the only think you have to worry about is whether your world view is in line with Gods.
Ok done.